Talk:List of metro systems

Airport express lines

Many Chinese, and not only, system tend to include airport express lines. But in no form those lines are urban rails and serving the city itself. Elk Salmon (talk) 11:52, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

@Elk Salmon Can you give more explanation on what you are trying to say? Metrosfan (talk) 13:55, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Issues with the "Service opened" date

The list in this article contains inconsistencies with which date of a metro system is considered the one when "service opened". Based on the definition in the lead, a metro system needs to be electrified. Example of an inconsistency:

• London Underground. Inaugurated as a steam railway in 1863. Electrified in 1890. The "Service opened" date used is 1863.
• Athens Metro. Inaugurated as a steam railway in 1869. Electrified in 1904. The "Service opened" date used is 1904. – This one I have fixed to 1869 with refs from the history page of the official website of the operator company which clearly mentions the 1869 date.

I believe there are more similar inconsistencies which have to be fixed. The list must use either the inauguration date or the electrification date. Not a different one for each metro system. —Dimsar01 ^Talk ⌚→ 08:58, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

Problem is there is no such thing as real-world, off-wiki consistency here. The Athens line was not created as a metro line but converted from a conventional branch line that still had shared operations with intercity and freight trains well into the 20th century. If anything the 1904 date is generous. oknazevad (talk) 09:57, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

The year of opening for each metro system is when they became a electrified,actual metro rail system,an example: if the Los Angeles Subway originally open as a non-electrified railway or they originally open as a commuter rail/light rail in 1993, but only became electrified and a actual metro system in 1998, the date will show 1998, im however not sure about how the past discussion for the London Underground went and why it shows 1863 instead of 1890 Metrosfan (talk) 14:56, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

The opening year should depend on the percentage of grade separation. The London line from 1863 was nothing more than a 6 km connecting tunnel between the Great Western Railway with the Great Northern Railway (and others) to form a unified network. Both Railway companies had lines in London way before 1863. Deciding on the opening date for legacy systems (like London, Chicago and Athens) is difficult because at their very first origin had not much in common with the current definition of a metro. I agree with Oknazevad that the 1904 date for Athens is generous. KatVanHuis (talk) 18:16, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

The following links contain more detailed history on both London and Athens systems. From what they say, London became a real metro system in 1890 and Athens in 1957.

https://www.urbanrail.net/eu/uk/lon/london.htm

https://www.urbanrail.net/eu/gr/athens/athens.htm

So it seems as if those should be the dates we should be using. I am not sure if this logic would affect any of the other legacy systems. Goldeneyed (talk) 20:20, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for your reply and research. I'm inclined to choose the 1957 date for Athens too. However London had a grade-separated line in 1863, and electric traction was only reasonably developed during the 1880s so it's difficult/unfair to disqualify London based on not having electric traction. Moreover, Wikipedia works with consensus, so the vast majority has to agree with certain years/dates. KatVanHuis (talk) 12:26, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

I don't think 1957 is suitable, because the Athens Metro was often viewed as the oldest in the Balkans and second oldest in Eastern Europe, and in the top 10 Oldest metro systems list, I think 1904 is the suitable year Metrosfan (talk) 14:49, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Question about Sevilla Metro

In almost all sources I have seen Sevilla's metro is considered rapid transit. I wonder why is it not included here. I also inquire about the Newcaslte system in England. Thanks! Nickmariostories (talk) 16:46, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

Tyne and Wear metro is not a metro, it is a light rail. I do not know about Sevilla. Ymblanter (talk) 07:48, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

I think the Tyne and Wear Metro should be listed, Seville Metro is a light rail not a metro, it uses light rail carriages and has light rail origins, it has level crossings, the only metro-like feature I know of is platform screen doors which many light rail system uses, other light rail systems like the Tel Aviv Light Rail and the Lusail Tram also uses platform screen doors. Metrosfan (talk) 15:28, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

New Taipei Metro

The New Taipei Metro is wrongly placed in the under construction section. Can someone fix it? I would but I wouldn't want to mess it up. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pikachu0025 (talk • contribs) 00:13, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

The New Taipei Metro is listed as it shows the data for the Sanying Line, it is under construction and operated by the New Taipei Metro, which is why it is listed there, it isn't part of the Taipei Metro nor the Taoyuan Metro Metrosfan (talk) 15:22, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Missing metro system

While only 3 stations, it appears to be a metro New Athos Cave Railway. Mattximus (talk) 18:27, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Seems like it's a special-purpose tourist railway, not a regular metro. oknazevad (talk) 19:09, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

China or Mainland China

My edit has been reverted twice, so I think it need to be discussed here. @Oknazevad You said we only list sovereign states, but according to Talk:List_of_metro_systems/Archive_5#Hong_Kong, special administrative region should be treated as separate from China in this list. In this case, distinction with Hong Kong, Macau, or Taiwan is required. Apperently, "China, except Hong Kong" is unworkable for the list. So, according to Wikipedia's Manual of Style MOS:NC-CN, the term "Mainland China" should be adopted.

@Dmitry.merkin Hope to hear your opinion as well. Thanks! Gcycaas (talk) 05:11, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

No, we decided long ago not to treat Hong Kong separately. The discussion you mention is very old, and has been overwritten by numerous discussions since, with consensus dating back at least ten years.

Also, your edit actually put Hong Kong (and Macau) under the Mainland China label, so you didn't even accomplish what you intended. The list is accurate and reflects consensus on this matter as is. oknazevad (talk) 05:32, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

Oh you're right, I think I made a mistake when editing the "List" section, I was thinking about the geographical mainland, thanks for pointed out! But I think "Mainland China" still suitable for the "List by country/region" section since Hong Kong there is listed separately. Gcycaas (talk) 17:03, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

I think they shouldn't be listed separately in the by country list to be consistent with the main list. oknazevad (talk) 20:19, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

Second that. Gcycaas (talk) 10:47, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

I think that for the countries section, we should put Hong Kong MTR back into part of China Metrosfan (talk) 15:19, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

@Gcycaas The reason why in the countries section it was separate is because someone has removed Hong Kong from China's data and listed it separately without consensus Metrosfan (talk) 15:21, 27 December 2024 (UTC)